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Jen, Resident Yote @Jenetrix@shrimp.creatures.club
2mo
on billionares, "forcefem", gen pol, and "queers can be evil too" I stg if i stumble upon another fucking "we should forcefem the rich" meme I'm going to fucking lose it.

lets put aside the horrifying implications of intentionally nonconsensually causing someone gender dysphoria for the moment, and lets say you somehow manage to forcefem all the problematic evil billionaires. do you seriously expect that to suddenly make everyone more empathetic and understanding?

being queer or having some queer experiences doesn't automagically make someone a good and more understanding and empathetic person. peter thiel and sam altman are fucking gay but them being gay doesn't mean they understand gay issues or are empathetic towards their fellow gays. they're all too insulated from any potential hardships they would have to face because they are affluent males in a white male dominated society. caitlyn jenner is trans and she obviously doesn't give a shit about her fellow trans people, she is too rich and is also too insulated to care, even as the leopards actively gnaw away at her face. any potential levels of hardship they may or may not have had to face for being gay or trans can easily be solved by them being rich fucks.

people will usually only change their worldview insofar as it directly affects them, and usually not much further than that unless necessary. they can trans their gender or come out as gay to square away that personal issue but wont change anything else about their mindset until it also affects them personally.

this doesn't just apply to rich billionare assholes but to everyone as well. yes even you, the "oh i would never, im woke enough to realize this is bad." person reading this. everyone needs that swift kick in the pants in order to understand and empathize with things outside of our perspective at least the once. some of us need it several times. that in and of itself is not a moral failing that is life. and i do mean everyone. everyone has had it happen in their lives at least once. to deny that is to deny how humans generally think and operate. the trick, and what is in my mind the mark of someone who truly is open minded or "woke", is needing that boot up the proverbial ass as few times as possible, but even then we cannot escape the reality that there are some things out of our periphery and we will need to be reminded of that, and there shouldn't be any shame in admitting that.

these billionaire fucks have not had enough of those proverbial boots up the ass, because they have insulated themselves from having it done. they do not want to be forced to do something that a lot of less well off people, and people who constantly have to face hardship are forced to contend with: adapting ourselves and our worldviews in order to survive. forcefemming them will only make them fem. they will only adapt their worldview insofar as them now being femme affects them. it wont make them more kind and empathetic people, it wont make them understand.

and if you are one of those people who thinks nonconsensually forcefemming people, even as a joke, is funny, you need a few boots up your ass as well.


Edit: removed a line because people are (incorrectly) getting hung up on the poor wording of that specific line and thus comically missing the entire point.
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Tzimisce Flesh @flesh@transfem.social
2mo
on billionares, "forcefem", gen pol, and "queers can be evil too" @Jenetrix
I feel like it is somewhat worth noting that it pretty much just takes the TERF talking points about the nature of women as in their essence harmless victims (I'm tired, not peak eloquence, you get the point) and wise mothers. Even if the framing is much more queer-coded, this is basically "it would be better if the dictator was a woman" kind of shit.
See also "Margaret Thatcher had girl power".
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Tzimisce Flesh @flesh@transfem.social
2mo
on billionares, "forcefem", gen pol, and "queers can be evil too" @Jenetrix I do think there's some nuance to be had with forcefem jokes with both how they overlap with people's own experience of gender and, well, kink culture making the topic of nonconsent seen with less weight. But that's kind of a tangential discussion and the greater thesis of "essentialism bad, actually" still stands.
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zivirkari (just moved) @hsza@social.tudbut.de
2mo
re: on billionares, "forcefem", gen pol, and "queers can be evil too" @Jenetrix say it with me forcefem is conversion therapy and those jokes are in horribly poor taste and go against everything queers should be fighting for
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Trans Icon Rachel, Feminist @YKantRachelRead@treehouse.systems
2mo
on billionares, "forcefem", gen pol, and "queers can be evil too" @Jenetrix
do you have any idea how many unironic transfem nazis there are?
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_Nazis_myth

note the word "myth" in there and maybe rethink this please
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Jen, Resident Yote @Jenetrix@shrimp.creatures.club
2mo
re: on billionares, "forcefem", gen pol, and "queers can be evil too" @YKantRachelRead before i knew any better myself i dated a few. several of them were my friends when i was younger.
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Trans Icon Rachel, Feminist @YKantRachelRead@treehouse.systems
2mo
on billionares, "forcefem", gen pol, and "queers can be evil too" @Jenetrix well then congratulations on using your anecdotes as an excuse to spread a fascist queerphobic oppression-inversion myth
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Trans Icon Rachel, Feminist @YKantRachelRead@treehouse.systems
2mo
on billionares, "forcefem", gen pol, and "queers can be evil too" @Jenetrix listen, idgaf what cesspit of a friend/dating pool you were drawing from when you were younger. spreading oppression-inversion myths in a time where the fascists in power want to simultaneously genocide us and drive us into sexual slavery is doing their work for them. so like. maybe don't do that, k.
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Winter flagLesbianBreizh @winter@translunar.academy
2mo
re: on billionares, "forcefem", gen pol, and "queers can be evil too" @Jenetrix @YKantRachelRead a few exist, you imply that a huge number exist, which is a myth invented by fascists
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Jen, Resident Yote @Jenetrix@shrimp.creatures.club
2mo
re: on billionares, "forcefem", gen pol, and "queers can be evil too" @winter @YKantRachelRead i think you're both getting hung up on that one line, (which admittedly was badly worded by me, and has now removed), and missing the point.
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Octavia Con Amore pink_moon_and_stars Succubard's Library @OctaviaConAmore@cutie.city
2mo
re: transmisogyny @Jenetrix @YKantRachelRead @winter it's probably because "trans-fems have a Nazi phase" is in the top 3 most common transphobia attacks that get used on fedi and, for some reason (not being cheeky, I'm not sure why the fuck), "liberals" and "progressives" seem to looove this one, as opposed to the basic slur-slinging that right-wingers like bear_shrug

what's worse, I'm not aware of any cases where a person peddling that line was actually punished for it, even on instances where "don't be a transphobe" was an explicit rule
frog_sus

ironically, quite a few of these incidents support your idea that having a marginalised identity doesn't necessarily force empathy and goodness
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Jen, Resident Yote @Jenetrix@shrimp.creatures.club
2mo
re: on billionares, "forcefem", gen pol, and "queers can be evil too" re: orphan post cutie.city/@OctaviaConAmore/116512853556194092


honestly cant tell if you're doing a bit or not with the light sarcasm but, yeah.

its not that i'm not aware of the criticism of what they're saying, i very much am. i removed the line because upon reflection yeah it does come off that way and wasn't worded well. ill take that L willingly, my bad.

i also happen to know that i have had the unfortunate experience of having dealt with more than my fair share of actual transfem nazis in the past, (including one of my stalkers.) that said you are also are 100% right, the "transfems have a nazi phase" talking point is also problematic as fuck, and is a problem, and i will not deny that. i will however also not deny that some do exist, as much as i and a lot of us wish they didnt.

it is also not the point of message i am trying to convey here. i think that denying the fact that we as a community are capable of doing harm and also can be blind to certain things is also a disservice not only to ourselves but to others.

the fact that there are people who think that joking about bodily autonomy in this way is ok just illustrates what i feel in my mind is the same kind of "blindspot" that the act of forcefemmimg itself is (in the context of the jokes in question) supposedly supposed to "cure" in the billionaires. the entire concept reeks of misogyny and transmisogyny and is antithetical to bodily autonomy as a concept. that anyone can go "but they're evil men so its ok ha ha funny" about it makes me genuinely upset.
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